I love your essays, Jenna, and this one particularly "spoke" to me. Although I am still working for a (smallish) paycheck, I dropped my hours last year so that I have more time to develop my writing, research, and ultimately, myself. Although I have worked part-time for years since having two kids, this feels different as my kids are older and I've never had so much time to myself! Which is freeing, yes, (and I'm so grateful), but I, too, find myself struggling to "justify" what I'm doing with my time! Why are we like this?! Is it just social conditioning, I wonder.
Why are we like this? I ask myself this all the time too. I think you chose the right word in "justify" but I have to keep reminding myself that nobody is asking and most likely nobody cares! But I guess I care, and that has to do with the hang-up about class and privilege that I referred to. It's social conditioning, maybe even generational. I keep working at unpacking it all.
Beautiful drawings (the mushrooms!!!) and writing, and wonderful, insightful thinking. All makes for great reading and puts a smile on my face. Keep on!
This isn’t an excuse, but it also can’t be ignored: part of why you, I, and so many of us are like this is that we were raised in and continue to live under capitalism.
You know I have had many of the same feelings of figuring out who I am if I’m not my work output or title, and some distance and time has opened my eyes a bit more to how insidious the myth of “you are what you produce” is, and to start regularly asking myself, whom does this myth benefit?
It doesn't benefit anyone except it does its job in feeding into this cycle of capitalism. I do wonder, as I mention in another comment, whether it's a generational mindset. Do our kids feel this way? Do younger generations who are working now feel this way?
Even though I make money through real estate, investing, and the occasional writing, I, too, find myself fighting those feelings of discomfort and dreading the moment someone asks, "What do you do for work?" I know that I am smart, that I am capable, that I have made generous salaries in the past, and yet, there is a deep-rooted shame that I feel about not doing so now. I expected that a year or two after leaving the corporate world, I'd have disentangled my self worth from a paycheck, but the truth is I still haven't. Yesterday, someone in the waiting room of my fertility clinic asked me: "Are you working right now?" and internally I felt such relief at the way this was asked. What does it take to move past this?!
You're asking me - I don't know! I'm realizing now it's going to be a long process of working through self doubt and self worth. Money, jobs, "prestige" - it's really hard to separate all of this from our true selves. I know for me it's also cultural which complicates things, but perhaps you understand because you brought up "shame."
I love this essay! For the last two years I have taken on seasonal, paid work that, no matter how much I think I can manage it all, consumes my energy and focus, which then disrupts my writing routine. I don't know why I do this to myself! I already know what I need to be doing, but it's as if I get in my own way, like I'm making better use of my time if I'm getting paid. I think I'm finally giving myself permission to not meet this self-inflicted expectation. I'm so glad I read your essay today.
Money is a very powerful motivator! I had to change my relationship with money - it was only then that I could start saying no to things I didn't want to do.
Your honesty and vulnerability in exploring the discomfort of doing nothing, and the challenge of unraveling your identity from your job, resonate with many of us. It's a brave exploration of self-discovery and transformation. May each small step forward bring you closer to the confident and wholehearted artist and writer you aspire to be.
Thank you Winston. I'm not sure why I'm surprised that this transition is such a process. I'm allowing it to take the time that it needs to take, which is a lesson onto itself!
I read a book last year called "The Good Enough Job: Reclaiming Life from Work" by Simone Stolzoff. The book talks about the notion that a job can be just a job and it doesn't need to define our identity. It certainly can for some people, but it doesn't need to be for all of us. He also encourages us to develop our other identities outside of what we do for a living, so we don't feel bound by what we do from 9-5. This mindset shift felt so liberating for me! It made it easy to see myself beyond what I do for a living, and consider myself as an avid reader and an inspiring-writer outside of work.
He also encourages all of us to not ask the question"What do you do?", but instead ask: "What do you like to do?" - so that, as a society, we start to care more about each other as individuals, rather than what we do for a living.
I like that. "what do you like to do?" We need to move away from the question about what we do in our jobs because modern work life is so much more complex and full of twisted pathways than they used to be. Thanks for recommending this book! Going to put it on my long list.
You are so insanely talented! Those 30-minute sketches boggle my mind. “this was a very unproductive week” sounds like a pretty good mantra along the lines of Jenny Odell's how to do nothing. What a lovely read. Thank you
Aw shucks, thanks ☺️ And oh! I was given a preview copy of her new book "Saving time" last year. Still sitting next to my bedside table. 🤦🏻♀️ Maybe I will have to look up this other book of hers.
You should! “How to do Nothing” was one of my top reads of the past few years. An interesting reflection on how to reclaim our most precious commodity (time/attention)
Hmmm, that is a huge endorsement. I will put it on my (big) list. I am still struggling to make time to read. That was a big January disappointment, actually.
Fwiw, I am a proponent of not reading if it feels like a burden, and only picking up a book out of joy. DO LESS! The books will be there when you're ready :)
I love this conversation. I am in the middle of a career switch, and going to grad school. I find myself having a million "intro" posts in my classes, to really ponder about who I am. Am I a stay at home mom (i was), am I a finance person (i was that too), am I a photographer (yes that too)...only some of those have been in service of money. In figuring out my last 20 years or so, I'm really pondering what they will be in service of and how I want to live them. I can't wait to see how this all plays out for you, and i love that you are taking the sometimes difficult time to really think about this. I think a lot of deep thinking is missing from our lives due to the attention economy and apps. Its super hard and rare to just sit and figure your shit out.
I am really so impressed that you are in grad school right now. It is never too late to go chase after what you want. And why did this hit so hard? "figuring out my last 20 years or so" - makes you really feel like all this pondering and figuring my shit out is worth the time and effort because holy hell, we do not get to live forever (nor would I want to). Make the time the we have, count.
Thank you! Its been a long saga of trying to find paying work that got me here, but finally, after so many years, found the right fit for me as a career. So happy I didn't give up! Turning 50 really gave me some pause, and I really like being the architect of those 20 years. I don't want to live forever either. In some ways it is empowering to plan and think and shift the narrative. I see my MIL just letting these years happen to her and I sure don't want that. I love how your writing really makes me think!
Finding the right fit is EVERYTHING. Seriously. So many of us are searching for that very thing. I love how you are taking control of your future and not letting things just happen. I totally get that. There's a little part of me that is curious to know what will happen if I just let things be, as someone who has mostly tried to take control and steer my life. I do believe that there is still magic when that happens, but it's a thin line between that and complacency, which is definitely where I don't want to be.
Back when I was homeschooling my kids, I routinely told new homeschoolers who had left brick-and-mortar school that they would probably need a month or several in order to disentangle their brains from “institutional” school. And don't forget, you're an artist. Artists need a LOT of so-called "empty" time. At least, that's what I tell myself, to justify all the hours spent reading and staring into space! I feel everything you said, the world makes us feel bad if we're not actively feeding the machine. But I don't see how you can get in touch with that creative higher power except through quiet.
Maya, I love everything about this comment. So much good here. "empty" time; the world makes us feel bad if we're not actively feeding the machine, getting in touch through quiet. Thank you for this.
Thank you for yet another beautiful, illuminating essay. I said something to another friend here recently: I think the most radical and courageous thing we can do is to see each other and let ourselves be seen. It's the basic stuff of human connection, which keeps us all going, and (I believe) helps the world keep going. I very much identify with your confusion and questions about a slower, less achievement-oriented life. It looks lovely in the lifestyle mags, and it is lovely, AND it's confusing and even confronting...you have to face your own crap. It's weird to step out of the income stream, even for a while. It's weird to "live the dream" and not feel like you can talk about the strangeness of it, as if it weren't earned. One more dose of perspective: I spend quite a bit of time helping my elderly mom, who misses her physical health and independence. The time with her has shown me with such clarity that our healthy, vital years are in limited supply, so this exploration and the hard work you're doing is so very very valuable. I know you know this. Sending good wishes from Portland, where the first crocuses will soon appear...
So much truth to it looking idyllic in the lifestyle mags! There's so much guilt for me to unpack with not bringing in the salary that I did anymore, especially as a breadwinner. I'm reminded so much of that very brief conversation that I had with that former classmate because of how uncomfortable he was and my unfair reaction later on, which was all about my issues and nothing to do with him at all. So I guess I'm really sensitive to the optics of it.
And yes to the vital years being in limited supply. I feel the same way and that is also what is driving me. My dad started showing signs of Alzheimers when he was 69 I think. That is not that far away when I think about it! It really scares me.
Totally OT, and sorry for being all over your comments section today, but I'm back to say that I really appreciate the plagiarism article you linked. I saw some of what happened recently on another newsletter platform and was confused without enough info about who said exactly what. This article helps explain some necessary nuance that often doesn't make it to the table.
Geez, don't apologize! It was an interesting read. So much gray area and nuance - and I didn't know you could plagiarize yourself?? Now suddenly I am paranoid 😂
I have the same reservations when someone asks, "What do you do?". I either go right into my "sales pitch," or I fumble my words for fear of judgment and scolding. Either way, there is an insecurity in my answer.
The identity that I held for so long as a "Silicon Valley engineer" runs deep into my bones. Leaving that behind to make my own waves has been rewarding but challenging. Nonetheless, I chose to go because I wanted more of this "active rest" that you described.
And now, as I sit here and read this essay, I am filled with guilt and condemnation because I've only gone deeper into the spiral of productivity. I want to pay myself with time, but I feel the pressure of money always sitting on my back.
This was a good reminder: money comes and goes, but my kids are kids once.
I left my career to help a community of people in their pain, but I first need to help the tiny little community in my home - my three children.
Hey, no guilt, and I certainly don't want to be the one who incites that. And also, you feel this way because some of it rings true for you, i.e. your last sentence, so you know what you your priories are. Acting on it is a different story.
But I totally get the pressure of money. It's what drove me for years and yeah, even though I worked a lot of it at home, partly because we couldn't afford full time childcare, I wasn't really "here." I have some regrets about that and that's where I feel some failure, like I was always treading the line in the middle and wasn't always there for the kids and never took my career to the top to make big money.
The biggest lesson that I'm trying to take away from last year of slowing down is not to replace the corporate grind with my own grind. This is what I'm referring to when I say tearing apart the glorification of being busy. These are life-long, ingrained things that I have to unlearn and maybe it will take another lifetime to achieve that. I hope not!
No no!! I didn't mean to imply you inciting the guilt. My choice of words were too strong. Your words helped me reflect on my own life.
I find the appeal of replacing the corporate grind with my own, because it's easy to justify. My own projects feel more meaningful, and so, easier to keep grinding away.
I loved this piece. I'm trying to learn to be okay with being non-productive, even just sometimes, and it's a hard sell after 27 years teaching and watching my fellow authors work themselves mad with gig culture.
I love your essays, Jenna, and this one particularly "spoke" to me. Although I am still working for a (smallish) paycheck, I dropped my hours last year so that I have more time to develop my writing, research, and ultimately, myself. Although I have worked part-time for years since having two kids, this feels different as my kids are older and I've never had so much time to myself! Which is freeing, yes, (and I'm so grateful), but I, too, find myself struggling to "justify" what I'm doing with my time! Why are we like this?! Is it just social conditioning, I wonder.
Also, your sketches are beautiful 😍
Why are we like this? I ask myself this all the time too. I think you chose the right word in "justify" but I have to keep reminding myself that nobody is asking and most likely nobody cares! But I guess I care, and that has to do with the hang-up about class and privilege that I referred to. It's social conditioning, maybe even generational. I keep working at unpacking it all.
Beautiful drawings (the mushrooms!!!) and writing, and wonderful, insightful thinking. All makes for great reading and puts a smile on my face. Keep on!
Thank you Christina. Your comment puts a smile on *my* face. ❤️
This isn’t an excuse, but it also can’t be ignored: part of why you, I, and so many of us are like this is that we were raised in and continue to live under capitalism.
You know I have had many of the same feelings of figuring out who I am if I’m not my work output or title, and some distance and time has opened my eyes a bit more to how insidious the myth of “you are what you produce” is, and to start regularly asking myself, whom does this myth benefit?
It doesn't benefit anyone except it does its job in feeding into this cycle of capitalism. I do wonder, as I mention in another comment, whether it's a generational mindset. Do our kids feel this way? Do younger generations who are working now feel this way?
"No I'm not talking about what I do but who I am"- gold. ❤️❤️
💫
Even though I make money through real estate, investing, and the occasional writing, I, too, find myself fighting those feelings of discomfort and dreading the moment someone asks, "What do you do for work?" I know that I am smart, that I am capable, that I have made generous salaries in the past, and yet, there is a deep-rooted shame that I feel about not doing so now. I expected that a year or two after leaving the corporate world, I'd have disentangled my self worth from a paycheck, but the truth is I still haven't. Yesterday, someone in the waiting room of my fertility clinic asked me: "Are you working right now?" and internally I felt such relief at the way this was asked. What does it take to move past this?!
You're asking me - I don't know! I'm realizing now it's going to be a long process of working through self doubt and self worth. Money, jobs, "prestige" - it's really hard to separate all of this from our true selves. I know for me it's also cultural which complicates things, but perhaps you understand because you brought up "shame."
I love this essay! For the last two years I have taken on seasonal, paid work that, no matter how much I think I can manage it all, consumes my energy and focus, which then disrupts my writing routine. I don't know why I do this to myself! I already know what I need to be doing, but it's as if I get in my own way, like I'm making better use of my time if I'm getting paid. I think I'm finally giving myself permission to not meet this self-inflicted expectation. I'm so glad I read your essay today.
Money is a very powerful motivator! I had to change my relationship with money - it was only then that I could start saying no to things I didn't want to do.
Thank you for sharing this. That definitely sheds some light on my situation and opens up a different way of approaching it. Wow.
Your honesty and vulnerability in exploring the discomfort of doing nothing, and the challenge of unraveling your identity from your job, resonate with many of us. It's a brave exploration of self-discovery and transformation. May each small step forward bring you closer to the confident and wholehearted artist and writer you aspire to be.
Thank you Winston. I'm not sure why I'm surprised that this transition is such a process. I'm allowing it to take the time that it needs to take, which is a lesson onto itself!
I also feel your discomfort, Jenna.
I read a book last year called "The Good Enough Job: Reclaiming Life from Work" by Simone Stolzoff. The book talks about the notion that a job can be just a job and it doesn't need to define our identity. It certainly can for some people, but it doesn't need to be for all of us. He also encourages us to develop our other identities outside of what we do for a living, so we don't feel bound by what we do from 9-5. This mindset shift felt so liberating for me! It made it easy to see myself beyond what I do for a living, and consider myself as an avid reader and an inspiring-writer outside of work.
He also encourages all of us to not ask the question"What do you do?", but instead ask: "What do you like to do?" - so that, as a society, we start to care more about each other as individuals, rather than what we do for a living.
I like that. "what do you like to do?" We need to move away from the question about what we do in our jobs because modern work life is so much more complex and full of twisted pathways than they used to be. Thanks for recommending this book! Going to put it on my long list.
You are so insanely talented! Those 30-minute sketches boggle my mind. “this was a very unproductive week” sounds like a pretty good mantra along the lines of Jenny Odell's how to do nothing. What a lovely read. Thank you
Aw shucks, thanks ☺️ And oh! I was given a preview copy of her new book "Saving time" last year. Still sitting next to my bedside table. 🤦🏻♀️ Maybe I will have to look up this other book of hers.
You should! “How to do Nothing” was one of my top reads of the past few years. An interesting reflection on how to reclaim our most precious commodity (time/attention)
Hmmm, that is a huge endorsement. I will put it on my (big) list. I am still struggling to make time to read. That was a big January disappointment, actually.
Fwiw, I am a proponent of not reading if it feels like a burden, and only picking up a book out of joy. DO LESS! The books will be there when you're ready :)
Yeah I appreciate that! Reading isn't a burden - I WANT to read. I seriously don't know how the days get away from me 😳
I love this conversation. I am in the middle of a career switch, and going to grad school. I find myself having a million "intro" posts in my classes, to really ponder about who I am. Am I a stay at home mom (i was), am I a finance person (i was that too), am I a photographer (yes that too)...only some of those have been in service of money. In figuring out my last 20 years or so, I'm really pondering what they will be in service of and how I want to live them. I can't wait to see how this all plays out for you, and i love that you are taking the sometimes difficult time to really think about this. I think a lot of deep thinking is missing from our lives due to the attention economy and apps. Its super hard and rare to just sit and figure your shit out.
I am really so impressed that you are in grad school right now. It is never too late to go chase after what you want. And why did this hit so hard? "figuring out my last 20 years or so" - makes you really feel like all this pondering and figuring my shit out is worth the time and effort because holy hell, we do not get to live forever (nor would I want to). Make the time the we have, count.
Thank you! Its been a long saga of trying to find paying work that got me here, but finally, after so many years, found the right fit for me as a career. So happy I didn't give up! Turning 50 really gave me some pause, and I really like being the architect of those 20 years. I don't want to live forever either. In some ways it is empowering to plan and think and shift the narrative. I see my MIL just letting these years happen to her and I sure don't want that. I love how your writing really makes me think!
Finding the right fit is EVERYTHING. Seriously. So many of us are searching for that very thing. I love how you are taking control of your future and not letting things just happen. I totally get that. There's a little part of me that is curious to know what will happen if I just let things be, as someone who has mostly tried to take control and steer my life. I do believe that there is still magic when that happens, but it's a thin line between that and complacency, which is definitely where I don't want to be.
I can't wait to hear about the magic! I believe in it!
Well it has to happen first! 😂 Waiting...
Back when I was homeschooling my kids, I routinely told new homeschoolers who had left brick-and-mortar school that they would probably need a month or several in order to disentangle their brains from “institutional” school. And don't forget, you're an artist. Artists need a LOT of so-called "empty" time. At least, that's what I tell myself, to justify all the hours spent reading and staring into space! I feel everything you said, the world makes us feel bad if we're not actively feeding the machine. But I don't see how you can get in touch with that creative higher power except through quiet.
Maya, I love everything about this comment. So much good here. "empty" time; the world makes us feel bad if we're not actively feeding the machine, getting in touch through quiet. Thank you for this.
Thank you for yet another beautiful, illuminating essay. I said something to another friend here recently: I think the most radical and courageous thing we can do is to see each other and let ourselves be seen. It's the basic stuff of human connection, which keeps us all going, and (I believe) helps the world keep going. I very much identify with your confusion and questions about a slower, less achievement-oriented life. It looks lovely in the lifestyle mags, and it is lovely, AND it's confusing and even confronting...you have to face your own crap. It's weird to step out of the income stream, even for a while. It's weird to "live the dream" and not feel like you can talk about the strangeness of it, as if it weren't earned. One more dose of perspective: I spend quite a bit of time helping my elderly mom, who misses her physical health and independence. The time with her has shown me with such clarity that our healthy, vital years are in limited supply, so this exploration and the hard work you're doing is so very very valuable. I know you know this. Sending good wishes from Portland, where the first crocuses will soon appear...
So much truth to it looking idyllic in the lifestyle mags! There's so much guilt for me to unpack with not bringing in the salary that I did anymore, especially as a breadwinner. I'm reminded so much of that very brief conversation that I had with that former classmate because of how uncomfortable he was and my unfair reaction later on, which was all about my issues and nothing to do with him at all. So I guess I'm really sensitive to the optics of it.
And yes to the vital years being in limited supply. I feel the same way and that is also what is driving me. My dad started showing signs of Alzheimers when he was 69 I think. That is not that far away when I think about it! It really scares me.
Totally OT, and sorry for being all over your comments section today, but I'm back to say that I really appreciate the plagiarism article you linked. I saw some of what happened recently on another newsletter platform and was confused without enough info about who said exactly what. This article helps explain some necessary nuance that often doesn't make it to the table.
Geez, don't apologize! It was an interesting read. So much gray area and nuance - and I didn't know you could plagiarize yourself?? Now suddenly I am paranoid 😂
I have the same reservations when someone asks, "What do you do?". I either go right into my "sales pitch," or I fumble my words for fear of judgment and scolding. Either way, there is an insecurity in my answer.
The identity that I held for so long as a "Silicon Valley engineer" runs deep into my bones. Leaving that behind to make my own waves has been rewarding but challenging. Nonetheless, I chose to go because I wanted more of this "active rest" that you described.
And now, as I sit here and read this essay, I am filled with guilt and condemnation because I've only gone deeper into the spiral of productivity. I want to pay myself with time, but I feel the pressure of money always sitting on my back.
This was a good reminder: money comes and goes, but my kids are kids once.
I left my career to help a community of people in their pain, but I first need to help the tiny little community in my home - my three children.
Hey, no guilt, and I certainly don't want to be the one who incites that. And also, you feel this way because some of it rings true for you, i.e. your last sentence, so you know what you your priories are. Acting on it is a different story.
But I totally get the pressure of money. It's what drove me for years and yeah, even though I worked a lot of it at home, partly because we couldn't afford full time childcare, I wasn't really "here." I have some regrets about that and that's where I feel some failure, like I was always treading the line in the middle and wasn't always there for the kids and never took my career to the top to make big money.
The biggest lesson that I'm trying to take away from last year of slowing down is not to replace the corporate grind with my own grind. This is what I'm referring to when I say tearing apart the glorification of being busy. These are life-long, ingrained things that I have to unlearn and maybe it will take another lifetime to achieve that. I hope not!
No no!! I didn't mean to imply you inciting the guilt. My choice of words were too strong. Your words helped me reflect on my own life.
I find the appeal of replacing the corporate grind with my own, because it's easy to justify. My own projects feel more meaningful, and so, easier to keep grinding away.
I loved reading this. So true. And by the way, those sketches are so gorgeous 😍
Ahhh, thank you so much 🙏
I loved this piece. I'm trying to learn to be okay with being non-productive, even just sometimes, and it's a hard sell after 27 years teaching and watching my fellow authors work themselves mad with gig culture.